Tulpa.info - metaphysics

Scarlet 5/10/2021 10:20 PM

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As in right now for instance

Well it looks like we found the voyeur.

(edited)

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Lmao

10:22 PM

voyeur* I have a kink for correct spelling, for instance I go to great lengths to include diacritics where appropriate and even spell it YouTube most of the time

Well, this is embarrassing--I am usually pretty careful about that.

You used two hyphens instead of an em dash! Go to hell!!

10:25 PM

Thankfully Im about to clock in for work so hopefully someone is gonna get this channel back on topic lol

10:25 PM

Anybody system-hop recently?

Unfastened Belts

You used two hyphens instead of an em dash! Go to hell!!

The reason Scarlet is looking forward to hell is because it'll be a new experience. But shes secretly afraid that it will prevent other new experiences

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I was under the impression that was the normal accepted substitution—I did however forget it was possible to hold the hyphen down for an actual em dash.

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huh

The reason Scarlet is looking forward to hell is because it'll be a new experience. But shes secretly afraid that it will prevent other new experiences

@Unfastened Belts - jump This... seems plausible.

Do you think your existential angst may be rooted in the near-certainty that death will eventually prevent you from having new experiences? (edited)

11:29 PM

@Scarlet

Ha, well, I do often wish immortality were possible. It would make sense, though I am not sure if that is it. I think a big part of it is that there is too much I want to do, not enough time, and too much of the time I do have is "wasted" doing things I consider valueless but seem unable to avoid. I am certainly very aware of my own mortality, and very prone to rumination. I know what you have to say about that, and it isn't entirely wrong.

Im such a smartass aint I? Totally unafraid of death myself...

11:45 PM

The only pointer Ive got is that in dreamless sleep, there is no craving for new experiences...

I wouldn't say I am afraid of it so much as resent it. Which is admittedly a pointless attitude I should work on releasing.

Hahaha :)

Unfastened Belts

The only pointer Ive got is that in dreamless sleep, there is no craving for new experiences...

This is admittedly a good point, and one thing I remind myself while trying to work on it.

Personally I fear death and do not intend to overcome that fear. Death is pointless and purely a loss and I very much plan to be angry about having to experiencing it right up until entropy prevents me from doing so :/

11:48 PM

If sapient species can be said to have a goal I would say that goal is the opposition of entropy in the broad sense. Of which death is a part. (edited)

You're a bad influence if I'm trying to rid myself of these attitudes. I would say that is exactly the sort of thing I still hold on to. Oh, and the other confounding factor is for whatever reason, I am drawn to and somewhat enjoy melancholy, but it can be too much at times and I need to learn to appreciate other states just as much.

Melancholy is super cathartic. I personally quite like it...

11:55 PM

But that is not what I experience when I comprehend death.

11:56 PM

That is... frustration.

11:56 PM

So usually I put it out of my mind.

Heh. Oh, no, not here either. Those were unrelated except through Marissa's original question braiding them as possible reasons I experience existential angst.

11:57 PM

Catharsis is wonderful. ❤️ I think a large number of my extracurricular interests could be explained just from that.

12:04 AM

To me, catharsis is capable of being a profoundly deep numinous state on par, I suspect, with some transcendental experiences. (edited)

12:04 AM

Who needs religion...

For sure! :)

Zen

Personally I fear death and do not intend to overcome that fear. Death is pointless and purely a loss and I very much plan to be angry about having to experiencing it right up until entropy prevents me from doing so :/

Why would you want to actively keep that fear in place? What purpose does it serve you?

12:29 AM

Unless you were being snarky lol

It is not meaningfully distressing in the day-to-day, and I prefer to acknowledge truth than to shy from distress.

What if it's possible to acknowledge the truth of death without distress?

To what end? Most things in this world can be rendered down to a palatable level, as you say, but to do so with death is a disservice.

Btw although I disagree, I do love what you said about the goal of sapient species being to fight entropy :)

Death is the end of cognition. To use cognition to do anything other than rage against it seems... delusional.

Zen

To what end? Most things in this world can be rendered down to a palatable level, as you say, but to do so with death is a disservice.

Is it really so unpalatable? Not sure if you saw that Woody Allen quote I posted in here the other day. "Deep sleep is like death, but without the commitment"

He did, he was part of the conversation.

Ah right, brainwaves and all that stuff

Because he stated that it actually isn't like that, measurably.

There is no point in deep sleep in which brainwaves are not firing, when there is not experience.

12:33 AM

The brain doesn't ever just stop.

Yep. taps own skull Like a steel trap.

It cycles, it reformats.

12:33 AM

But it doesn't stop.

12:34 AM

That's what it does when it dies.

What do brainwaves matter? As far as experience goes, it's absent in dreamless sleep

Do you think I care what happens when I am not conscious?

I thought you cared because you said that opposing the end of cognition is your very purpose in life

Even if I was capable of processing it - If my cognition cannot perceive something it is irrelevant to me.

And yet you rage against death?

Of course, because then my perception has ended.

Im not trying to be annoying, Im legit not putting 2 and 2 together here haha

And I am only perception.

I guess I dont have to get it :) See you on my lunch break, gonna ponder in the meantime

I do actually rage against sleep almost as much as I do death.

All of that wasted time... Not joking.

Hahaha I love sleep! Look forward to it all day

I enjoy it as a pleasant experience, and for the benefits it provides, but it is not a personally fulfilling experience to me.

I love sleep. But I experience it quite cognitively as it happens.

12:38 AM

I've done quite a bit of lucid dreaming and as a result my dreams are considered meaningful enough to remain perceptible.

For the sake of being pedantic, I would argue that dreamless sleep isn't pleasant (or painful for that matter), but it is fulfilling in the framework-y sense: the absence of feeling unfulfilled ;P (Except this is eventually possible in the waking state too)

Dreamless sleep just has no bearing on me whatsoever other than it's use as a reformatting tool for my memory. I define my life and ego by my conscious moments and nothing else.

12:45 AM

You may as well ask me about how I value the possible knowledge of multidimensional space in M-theory/String theory. There are as many as double digits in possible dimensions, many of which we may not be able to perceive meaningfully. Beyond me going "Oh that's interesting that it works that way" - Meaningfully I am a three/four dimensional being and anything else is experentially irrelevant up until the point I can use that science to do interesting things (edited)

Im not asking you to value it, Im just saying that death will likely not feel meaningfully different

Therein lies the issue though. An identity is a value-assigning program.

12:48 AM

That's chiefly what we're for.

12:48 AM

And death has so much negative value I'd rank it worse than anything else in all of reality.

How could it have less than 0 value? Haha

When you experience bad things - the correct response is to have emotional badness, then let go. Which is how I deal with death. I do not really fixate on it, but it's there and it's awfulsadbad.

Fair enough

Tf when excited to eventually die

12:50 AM

Yes even before I was religious, before that gets brought up

The thing is, death only ever exists in your dreading it. "You" will never actually be dead

Not, like, now But a good death is a good end to a good life

That's also awfulsadbad and I pity you which is probably a negative response for you to experience which is even more awfulsadbad.

12:51 AM

I do not perceive any death as good.

What's the alternative? Bodies are temporary

Obviously we do not have a good alternative at the moment.

12:52 AM

But that may not always be the case.

Hahaha

Not in our lifetimes.

Clinical immortality is, I'd point out, theoretically considerably easier to achieve than, say, breaching space time for the sake of FTL travel.

I wouldn't do clinical immortality

I would accept any state to remain cognizant.

I'm not saying I'd never upgrade my body if say, artificial joints become super OP and everyone over the age of 40 gets artificial super-knees

12:53 AM

Rather than slowly getting limited mobility

Zen

I would accept any state to remain cognizant.

Probably same.

12:55 AM

Are we assuming transfer to some sort of machine? It certainly seems a heavier lift to keep a human body alive.

I guess I was talking about it earlier I have a certain level of innate distain and discomfort with processing sensation and death seems like a big peace in that way, it's the eternal rest at the end of the long sweaty day, and I would never steal that from myself Eventually I want to stop

Keep in mind if it's even possible that we can be uploaded to machines or slowly transitioned into one, that it's likely we can expand our perceptions further beyond that. Let's say I have to spend 100 years as a labor bot with limited emotional abilities, and the resulting transition damages my underlying personality. Logically speaking at some point the technology will advance further to the point where I can be restored to a sapient level. That would be sufficient.

You must love doing reCAPTCHAs huh

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12:56 AM

you're already training the google hive mind

12:56 AM

give it 100 years

12:56 AM

they already drive cars